Does Chumming harm the fishery?

[MrSpectaculous]

I asked this question last night of our guest speaker. I say yes, It increases the catch rate for guys that would never have been able to catch a snook without chumming. And i've read that bait patterns are changing in the bay and bait is getting harder to locate (not that I use it)

What are your thoughts?

[Shep]

Any time you change nature's pattern (chumming) it changes in some way or another. Whether it hurts it, helps it or harms it, I have no idea.

[Walt]

If you go to marker 9 in Tera Ceia Bay, it looks like a parking lot on some weekends. If you drive over the skyway @ 6am there's @ least a half dozen guide boats baiting up . With that much pressure you would think it would have some impact(at least in those areas).

I do alot of fishing out of the boat still, and there's no shortage of bait elsewhere. I would have to say that overall there's probably more bait around than there was 10 years ago. Most of it is offshore where you can't get to it with a throw net.

IMHO the fisheries as a whole are alot stronger now than they were 10 years ago. Something must be right.

[Todd]

I asked this question last night of our guest speaker.

What did he say?

[MrSpectaculous]

I asked this question last night of our guest speaker.

What did he say?

He did not know......Bait has been getting some attention lately in the press. Texas has banned or is banning the use of Croakers as Trout bait because many feel it is to effective on Gator trout.

Can you imagine the impact on the Guides if Chumming was banned? As I said before alot more fish would go uncaught and that equate to less pressure on Reds and Snook.

I hear chumming is a recent practice developed in the last 10 or so years.....

[MrSpectaculous]

IMHO the fisheries as a whole are alot stronger now than they were 10 years ago. Something must be right.

Is the fishery really better or have our techniques improved for catching fish?

[DaveR]

Chummers suck ass.

[Todd]

The fishery is defintely better. Every year, minus the red tide years, there is never a shortage of bait. The bait never left the bay this year. They have been getting bait all year there.

Most of the guides would be hard pressed to make a living without chum and bait. Not so much that they are dependent on it but their clients are. Face it, a guy from up north pays $500 to go fishing for a day he damn well wants to catch fish! Most guides would probably rather throw artis, would make their day a lot easier.

As far as the topic. Yes chumming harms the fishery. It creates a totally un-natural enviroment for the fish.

[Sully]

I believe the practice has definitely changed the fishery.

One of the points that Capt. Gaskil made was he believed that the snook he was chumming began to play the game. He pulled up, put out baits and would not begin to respond until they were chummed. They get hooked, reeled in and released.

I am not sure they are responding to the the chum knowing they will be hooked but it makes you wonder.

[Walt]

I have been fishing the south Tampa Bay waters for the last 35 years. 35 years ago the fishing was awesome. When you cast a line in the water, your expectations were that you were going to catch a fish. As the years progressed we had to work harder and harder to get less results. Some where in the late 1980's I took up golf because the fishing wasn't good. You could still catch fish, but there were too many skunk trips.

As far as tactics? Yea, they have certainly improved. There are also 100 times more people on the water chasing the fish. If you tell one single person where your honey hole is, you'll see the exact lat & long published in the florida sportsman mag @ the end of the month. A week later there will be 10 boats on it Information gets around quick these days.

One of the areas the fishing has improved most has been offshore. The tactics haven't changed much out there. The Snapper bite has been as good as I ever remember it. The Kingfish have been really strong. There are more macks & bonita , and bait.


The backwater fishing will never be what it once was, but it is improving. When I take the yak out on the river @ night, I like what I see under the dock lites. I haven't played golf in 3 years

[shamus]

Can you imagine the impact on the Guides if Chumming was banned? As I said before alot more fish would go uncaught and that equate to less pressure on Reds and Snook.

I gotta ask a question here. What equates to "PRESSURE" on the fish. Is it some fish being caught ?. Is it the effects of boat traffic ?. The prop scars in the grass, the prop wash throwing extra sand into the mangroves.
If it's the effects of the boat then isn't it better all around for the guide to anchor up toss his wiffle ball bat of shinners and fish one area then have to really work for the fish going to location after location. I hear people complain that a guide chucks pilchers in the same location all the time and catches fish "It's like he's ringing a dinner bell. Are they catching the same fish all the time. If so then are they pressuring the species ? If there different fish then doesn't that speaks well for the numbers of fish.
If the guide does catch & release, uses circle hooks and handles the fish correctly does he hurt the fish any worse than some one in a kayak throwing a topwater lure with treble hooks. If Neil limits out with his cutomers has he pressured the fish as much as the guide in the flats boat ? (Neil, by the way, is a stellar example of what I consider a sportsman) Since kayak fishing is exploding in Florida does our sheer numbers create as much pressure on this fish as the guides in boats.

[justabucup]

Chumming has had a much greater impact on the construction industry. If it was not for Chumming most of the paid fishing buddies would go back to swinging a hammer. I guest you could also blame chumming on illegal immagration. If these paid fishing buddies would do the jobs their would be less need for illegal labor.

[LivelyBaits]

Can you imagine the impact on the Guides if Chumming was banned? As I said before alot more fish would go uncaught and that equate to less pressure on Reds and Snook.

I gotta ask a question here. What equates to "PRESSURE" on the fish. Is it some fish being caught ?. Is it the effects of boat traffic ?. The prop scars in the grass, the prop wash throwing extra sand into the mangroves.
If it's the effects of the boat then isn't it better all around for the guide to anchor up toss his wiffle ball bat of shinners and fish one area then have to really work for the fish going to location after location. I hear people complain that a guide chucks pilchers in the same location all the time and catches fish "It's like he's ringing a dinner bell. Are they catching the same fish all the time. If so then are they pressuring the species ? If there different fish then doesn't that speaks well for the numbers of fish.
If the guide does catch & release, uses circle hooks and handles the fish correctly does he hurt the fish any worse than some one in a kayak throwing a topwater lure with treble hooks. If Neil limits out with his cutomers has he pressured the fish as much as the guide in the flats boat ? (Neil, by the way, is a stellar example of what I consider a sportsman) Since kayak fishing is exploding in Florida does our sheer numbers create as much pressure on this fish as the guides in boats.

Thank you Bill. That was nice of you to say.

It's a good question. Brent did a good job of answering it because there isn't a simple answer. Brent touched on the fact that the fish that are caught are handled with care and demonstrated methods of leaving the fish in the water while getting the hook out. He has a zero harvest rule for his boat on speckled trout. He'll encourage other clients to release the other fish species. On special requests he might allow a group to keep one snook. He covers all of that when he's talking to the customer who is interested in the trip.

Mel Berman posed another question: Stunned bait fish swim around as chummers much like red tide stunned baitfish swim around. So are the chummies teaching the fish to stay in a harmful algae bloom instead of reading that as a signal to move out of there?
I hadn't thought of it that way until he mentioned it.

As for Pressure. It exists in all the items that were mentioned. Some negative. Some less negative.
One that wasn't mentioned is Habitat Destruction which remains the number one threat to the fish stocks in Florida. Coastal development is really something that affects the sensitive nurseries that inshore and offshore fish depend on in their juvenile years.
Angling pressure has a huge impact as well. Chumming or no chumming. The educated angler who practices catch and release isn't having a large negative impact. The uneducated angler who has learned where and how to get these fish to eat, but beats on the fish is putting much more negative pressure on them.

[srsfsu]

Mel Berman posed another question: Stunned bait fish swim around as chummers much like red tide stunned baitfish swim around. So are the chummies teaching the fish to stay in a harmful algae bloom instead of reading that as a signal to move out of there?

Interesting, but I gotta say that Mel might be slightly off his rocker after reading this comment. Sometimes people think too much. This is a perfect example. I have a lot of theories but no scientific evidence to back them up. For example, I have a theory that if you stick your thumb in a snook's love hole that he/she equates this to pleasure and therefore associates people with good times. When snook see me paddling on the flats they start swimming to the kayak. It really is a sight to see. Neil, next time you are releasing a snook do a quick check of the oil. They seem to love it. Really. They do.

Wait, what was I saying. Oh yeah, that Cap Mel guy....completely nuts.

[MrSpectaculous]

Great Discussion!

Have you ever been out behind a waterfront restaraunt with those corn dispensers that look like bubble gum machines? Fish flock to them, Also ponds have these automatic food spreaders...Freedom Lake has them, You can even go to Sawgrass lake and just the act of leaning over the rail has the bream, Bass, and Talapia schooling waiting for you to toss something (Pocket or Pen fisherman take note)

It's Unlawful to bait wild game (some times and some places) and also for Freshwater fish in some States and species..It's just a matter of time before it happens to the Saltwater Angler.

To me it's kinda like hunting on a farm..aka A Canned Hunt

[bonefishwhisperer]

I heard corn kills fish...I also think chumming seaks volumes of ones LACK of ability on my levels...I see people even chumming for bonefish...quite laughable...I see it as one step below outright netting and as a flyfisherman I know for a fact that the same fish can be caught without chum or even bait but it just harder...now I gotta go "CHUM UP" some permit this morning...LOL...what you are saying by proxy is 'hey, I'm not a good enough fisherman to catch fish that aren't in a barrel so I will create the same effect so I can catch something" to me its 100% unethical...you will NEVER see ME raping the food chain to achieve a false presence of fish for myself and certainly not for a client...these views are probably soley my own so crucify me if you must